Unless every Seasteader is independently wealthy and retired, they will need some means of making a living. Sure, they could be subsistence fishermen or "sea farmers" of some type, but that's hardly going to be conducive to any kind of decent standard of living, certainly not a modern, technological lifestyle that gives enough surplus wealth to engage in experimental governance and social evolution.
RE: #4: This is a proven industrial application, and there is no reason other than initial investment cost that such an industry could not be adapted to a whole-lifestyle platform where the business is an employee-owned corporation where people permanently live in close proximity to their work. It's also possible to do on a smaller scale nd therefore solve your energy problems, simply by producing for yourself. Granted, this would be a capital-intensive start-up.
We could give 'offshoring' a
We could give 'offshoring' a more literal meaning.
Invest in the gray economy
Two industires with relatively low start-up costs and high demand: off-shore banking and "data havens." Both might have a comparative advantage on a seastead because they are so heavily regulated on-shore.
But if I really wanted to make a fine living on a seastead and cared not a whit for my eternal soul, I'd open an offshore prostitution / opium den. Now there's a growth industry where lack of government regulation really makes a difference.
Devil's advocate:
Off-shore banking already has a LOT of competition, and people are pretty conservative when it comes to financial institutions. You'd haev to prove your trustworthiness (which typically takes generations in the banking industry) and your ability to enforce your intentions: If the US Marshalls show up with guns, can you really forestall them? What happens to your data haven when you get sued? If you're truly sovereign, you might be able to ignore a lawsuit, but the global economy is pretty tightly integrated, and the minute you set foot in some place where you're wanted for copyright infringement, you and your assests could be seized and held pending a lawsuit.
Anyway, I don't think that most libertarians are entirely comfortable with pirating other people's property rights, even intellectual property.
It might be something if you could get a service going that allowed people access to unbiased sources of news and information not censored by governmental control, but the problem here is that the access to the medium of information flow (airwaves and Internet) are largel controlled at the point of access, not at the source of inromation, so governments still have control over the information reaching their citizens.
Competition for offshore banking
Hey thebastige -
You suggested that the offshore banking industry is already fairly competitive.
I'd say this is probably quite right and a very good point for a "devil's advocate" to be making.
But one thing the present competition cannot offer is a guarantee that governments will continue to stay hands-off.
When I worked briefly in a bank in Switzerland in 2001, for example, you could already hear talk of stepped-up government intrusions that would have been unheard of years ago.
A seastead bank, by contrast, could offer greater guarantees of long-term privacy backed up by its ability to unmoor itself from any "government" that formed in a seastead colony (I guess dragging its data cables with it, but let's not get bogged down in logistics).
And as to the "trustworthiness" concern, I suppose that would be solved if an established name in banking set up shop. Or is the whole thrust of this thread aimed at what industries twenty-something libertarian wonks (i.e. probably most posters on this website) could run?
Well, taking your last point
Well, taking your last point first, yes, I would say that the most important point is: what can the people who are already interested in this idea, do to employ themselves well enough to build and live on their seastead? Lets not get trapped into the common problems pointed out here several times on this website and epitomized by the South Park Underpants Gnomes:
But to address your first point, who says a Seastead can guarantee no government interference? A major topic of discussion on this board is how to avoid the notice of and avoid antagaonizing existing states, because we have NO defense against them, including no legal rights under their legal system. We have no way to guarantee freedom from the oversight of established government. The United States claims taxes on your income for ten years even after you emigrate to another country, and will prosecute you should you ever set foot back in the states if you don't fess it up. If your assets are great enough, they will try to extradite you or freeze your assets until they get their cut. It's not right, but it's a fact of life that is NOT going to change any time soon. They didn't put Al Capone in prison for his gangster ways and many violent crimes, they put him in prison for tax evasion.
The bottom line is...
... you only have the rights you're ready (and able) to defend.
right . . .
I'm puzzled that, having assailed the banking thing at some length for want of detailed logistics and lack of realism given a community of twenty-something anarchists, you posted below that medical tourism would be a good industry in seastead-land.
Anyway, I'll give you that offshore banking makes the IRS mad, but as you point out, it's already done in many places, most of which have ridiculously small armies but have yet to be invaded.
(I assume that invasion is the fear you're giving utterance to by stating that you'd have no defense against on-shore sovereigns.)
Assumptions
Invasion assumes sovereignty. I don't assume that at all. As Patri says, "think incremental gain in liberty" and be happy with that.
I don't aim my sites at
I don't aim my sites at 20-something anarchists. Personally, I am neither. I am a person in the middle of a good career who is looking at places to retire and be left the F alone in 20 years with a fat egg. I have ideals, but I am not an "idealist". I like technological challenges but am not willing to sacrifice my lifestyle for cutting edge geekery.
Any industry that is
Any industry that is otherwise highly taxed, highly regulated, and does not need vast areas for production should be competitive on a eastead.
Most if not all Industry will require reliable power. In practice this means fossil fuel or a nuclear power plant.
One highly regulated thing...
... that is not necessarily unethical, or likely to incur reprisals: Medical Tourism.
This does require a VERY stable, technologically advanced, and trustworthy seastead society and is not likely to be a first generation effort.
OK, tht's the standard
OK, tht's the standard theory, which I think we're all aware of :)
BTW, that last was meant to
BTW, that last was meant to be kidding...
I just realised this was
I just realised this was aimed at me. The thread formatting was kind of funky.
Well, lets think about this... ...prostitution?
Seriously though, the point (I think I was trying to make) is that pretty much anything (save for a number of exceptions) will be competitive on a seastead, and therefore enumerating all these possible commercial ventures individually seems somewhat redundant. Better to determine what general factors of seasteading industry are benefits (no regulation) vs drawbacks (high real estate cost). Or maybe this amounts to the same thing, I don´t know...
Sorry, I think you have it
Sorry, I think you have it absolutely backwards. People don't typically make a go of a business because they get into a field of endeavour- they make a go of a business because they have a specific idea of how to do something specific better than other people. and I don't think you average busines on a seastead is competitive with comparable businesses on land. It may or may not be, but its main competition will always be local- competing with other businesses and ideas for scarce local resources.
"People don't typically
What I mean is that just
What I mean is that just because someplace has lower taxes or less regulation, doesn't men that a given business will thrive there. You still need a business plan that has actual specifics, not just:
Essentially, the business has to be viable on its own merits. Lower taxes might give a bit of competitive advantage, but it won't make up for not having a business plan. It also may very well not make up for other disadvantages. You're making a lot of blanket statements that are straight out of libertarian theory, but don't seem practical.
Well, yes, hopefully. Unless you find that some hurdles are just not able to be overcome with near-term technology. We don't know this. Be careful of making too-positive statements, it undermines your credibility a bit.
A lot of people don't see things this way. In fact, most societies are fairly static for long periods of time. When one makes such a blanket statement, one sounds like a millienial doomsayer.
Perhaps. I think a lot of people are overestimating the willingness of people involved in a community to abandon that community. That's not really the way human relationships and social identity work for the majority of people, and even rugged individualists think twice about moving on from known people and situations. I also think the complexity and expense of such a move is being underestimated.
Well, I guess I figured
Well, I guess I figured that some things goes without saying. Obviously you need a workable business plan. My point is that all other things being equal (other than location, land vs seastead), a seastead will eventually (in the long run) be the most efficient place to produce many goods and services. Can I guarantee this with 100% certainty? No I cannot. It´s what I think. TIme will tell what actually happens. Does the fact that I observe that governments tend to grow make me a "doomsayer"? I think not. And I´m sure one can find examples of government that shrinks "by itself" so to speak. But those examples are likely to be exceptions to the rule. And sure there are different political takes on this issue. But I´m not sure those with an opposing view to mine would actually suggest that government does not generally grow. I think they would rather say that "yes, it grows, but that is a good thing", or something to that effect.
Fair enough
Fair engouh, and no disrespect meant. I'm not one to be unecessarily pedantic (or am I?- I guess I'll just have to leave that determination up to others) but it seems worthwhile to spell things out and make explicit acknowledgement of the "cons" as well as pumping up the "pros". Mostly because as libertarians of one stripe or another we're already labelled and lumped in with pie-in-the-sky idealists and impractical dreamers. The way to disprove that is by being cautious on our positives and thoroughly investigating the negatives. Personally, I'm ore interested in seasteads as a possible commercial venture and personal project, and interested in the technology more than the reformation of society.
None taken, and I guess you
Cetereis paraibus...
.... "dynamc geopgraphy hasn't proven any benefit yet. Economies of scale MAY kick in. Eventually. Someday. Maybe. The drawbacks also include lack of credibility for a new/unproven business/social model, and the natural skepticism normal people have for crackpots may be a LOT larger than you anticipate.
Dynamic geography in action
Actually, there IS an historic example of dynamic geography in the 2+ centuries of carribbean pirates infestation of the West Indies.
Here is a paper originally published in the Journal of Political Economy (issue 115, volume 6) that analyzes the inner workings of pirate society. You will see that these pirates had their own form of dynamic geography, because they would switch very easily from one "jurisdiction" (ship, with its own governance and rules) to the other. In fact, it points out that such movement between "ship-states" was the main carrier of news for pirates.
Have a look at the properties of the "bill of rights" (chasse-parties) that were in application among pirates, and also note the ethnic diversity and religious tolerance they had: it seems the dynamic geography aspect did well to keep their captains and quatermasters in check.
Vtoldude's right
vtoldude - I think you're right, and I understood your point perfectly well the first time you made it. Perhaps the most exciting thing about free platforms of laissez-faire capitalism is the enormous benefit in productivity (and virtually everything else) of laissez-faire capitalism.
thebastige - vtoldude's statement reflecting the thoroughly proven general rule of economies of scale really isn't subject to the rejoinder "Be careful of making too-positive statements, it undermines your credibility a bit." To the disinterested reader, you appear to be arguning for its own sake. (Be careful of that - it undermines your credibility a bit.)
One option for a seastead
One option for a seastead business (still heavily tourism-centric) is charter fishing and scuba/snorkeling equipment rental and training. Someone who has a boat capable of doing these things would also have a comparative advantage as a ship-to-shore taxi in a specialization of labour scenario.
competition?
Wouldn't tourism and snorkling etc. have the same problems with competition that you opined would affect private banking? (With fewer of the corresponding comparative advantages)
I'll grant you that I may be way off base - the ranks of pasty-skinned libertarian wonks (look no further than me) may be a completely fresh, untapped ocean tourist market.
LOL. Pasty-skinned or not,
LOL. Pasty-skinned or not, libertarians are not the only or even the primary target of tourism, my friend. Not everybody involved in or touched by the Seastead project will be a libertarian, in fact, ideological bias will probably be the bigget reason for failure of any seastead projects that don't succeed.
It could be attractive for a myriad reasons that have nothing to do with libertarianism. It coule be sci-fi geeks, budget tourists, high-end tourists, people seeking basic employment, people seeking specific employment, people who just can't bloody get along in an urban environment, and Jaques Cousteau wannabees.
Now, do these business ideas have potential for instant billions in yearly revenue? No- obviously not, but they have the possibility of being sustainable small business "going concerns" and family enterprises, which is what the small-scale seastead needs to be able to even crack the market open for eventual cities-in-the-sea.
Backyard bank
Well, I remember news of a clandestine bank operated by some guy in his home: he would collect money for others and offer mobile phone services, it was literally a backyard operation, yet the guy had many millions of dollars worth of money in his custody.
Of course, to do this on an isolated piece of floating land isn't practical enough. But not for the reasons you invoke ;-)
Backyard bank/loansharking
I'd have to see the original story. You'd only be able to do this with people who otherwise can't get regular financial services.
I have seen this kind of thing in action a bit (I've traveled a few third world and rising industrial nations, as well as lived in some pretty poor neighborhoods growing up), so I would also posit that it takes an established reputation- if I, as a caucasion guy, tried to move into say, a Latino community and set up shop, not only would I:
This would seem to be a subsistence living at best. There are lots of enterprises which will obtain you a subsistence level of lifestyle, even on a seastead. If you're not doing better than a subsistence level, it's not going to appeal to anyone other than extreme idealists (read: unreliable nutjobs and paranoids). This is not a lifestyle that appeals to me at all.
Self-consistency and experimental drugs
"and let's face it, libertarians or not, most people who have trouble with the law are dysfunctional in some way or other and difficult if not dangerous to deal with"
Seems to me that everyone is disfunctional and dangerous in some respect. However I learned from experience and theory that the least disfunctional and least dangerous people are those with the highest self-consistency in both acts and principles, whether they abide by the law or not: people with non-self-contradicting ethics, who tend to do as they say. To put it simply, if they have trouble with the law it's because (and where) the law is disfunctional, not the other way around. Most of these people that I know of, are libertarians, but that could be selection bias.
"With respect; "The plural of anecdote is not data." It's always best when one has a point to make, to cite the original source example or use your own original logic."
Sorry if that wasn't clear: I'm not trying to prove that backyard banking is a potential business venue to look at, I'm just disproving that it's impossible or very unlikely. I really can't find the original story :(
"If you're not doing better than a subsistence level, it's not going to appeal to anyone other than extreme idealists"
You're spot on. That's precisely the reason why seasteaders ought to milk every possible comparative advantage for profit. I think the medical research and medical tourism potential is high, since it's the most heavily-regulated business (thanks, mainly, to the overall regulations of labour, since it is most dependent on human capital). There might be potential in offering suppressed or not-yet-authorised experimental treatments, too: that's another direct route bypassing the heavy regulations.
Asbestos disposal
Another industrial possibility for a seastead might be asbestos disposal. The only real problem with asbestos and the reason it is banned is because inhaling it in particulate form over long periods of times causes physical damage to your lungs. It's not chemical damage- in fact, asbestos is fairly inert, chemically. It might be possible to find a method of disposal which not only is not harmful to the sea floor, but actively beneficial to permanent or semi-permeanent seastead mooring areas by providing a substrate upon which more marine life can grow, in the artificial reef model.
Technology licensing
To play Devil´s Advocate
To play Devil´s Advocate there might be quite a few seasteads that decide not to respect intellectual property. This could spawn a backlash (of non-reciprocal respect of IP, if that makes sense) against all seastead communities, even those who do.
This is not to say that one cannot innovate without IP. But relying heavily on patent rights and licensing might prove tricky.
a point:
The punishment for violating IP rights is not typically reciprocal IP infringement.
It's usually trade sanctions, import duties, tariffs, harassment by over-zealous inspection of cargo, embargoes, and lawsuits. The United States could even prohibit their citizems from visiting or doing business with you legally. Look at Cuba. There are other nations around the world that do similar things.
You could be right about
Tit for tat
Not so much hypocritical, but against their own laws, and one principle of law is consistency. Also, they probably don't gain much from it. But embargoes,, tariffs, trade sanction, and boycotts definitely hurt their own population less than it hurts you. You're one source among many, and a tiny one at that. "They" are a potential market of 300 million in the US alone. And if you're moored off the coast of the US, who else are you going to buy stuff from? There is no way to completely uncouple yourself from the world economy, and legal structure of the nation-state unless you are wiulling and able to live completely self-sufficiently with no interaction with outsiders, and even then there is no guarantee you can avoid interference. Some attention MUST therefore paid and some nodding done to get along. It's pretty basic ethics too.
Tit for tat
Not so much hypocritical, but against their own laws, and one principle of law is consistency. Also, they probably don't gain much from it. But embargoes,, tariffs, trade sanction, and boycotts definitely hurt their own population less than it hurts you. You're one source among many, and a tiny one at that. "They" are a potential market of 300 million in the US alone. And if you're moored off the coast of the US, who else are you going to buy stuff from? There is no way to completely uncouple yourself from the world economy, and legal structure of the nation-state unless you are wiulling and able to live completely self-sufficiently with no interaction with outsiders, and even then there is no guarantee you can avoid interference. Some attention MUST therefore paid and some nodding done to get along. It's pretty basic ethics too.
Education
What about sort of a summer camp. There´s plenty of things a platform like that could offer. If you think about the kids, for example, you´ve got a mix of exercise, skuba diving, fun... There´s a chance that some people that simpatize us but don´t want to get involved could send their children to our summer camp. If it is a baystead it should be as safe as any other camp. As for more grown kids, you could mix it up with somo economic lessons. California is a big area enought to finfd people interested in a seminar of Austrian economics. And I say Austrian economics because I foresee that it could be easier to convince top teacher to join the project asking for a lower fee than he usually gets, but you could teach whatever you want. Or even Englisg lessons to people from abroad like me ;-) I hope you get the point. There´s a lot of money around education these days, and doing things the proper way you could get part of it. Cheers
Education- but not just summer camp
Private schools have wide appeal. Trade schools for merchant marines, a private military (naval) academy, university, martial arts- all are viable, and depending upon the particular reputation of the institution (meaning the individual faculty reputations to start with, most likely), could be as viable as any shore-based institution. The differentiator might be the isolation from distraction, as well as the particular challenge.
The potential market is not just Californa, it's the world, thanks to modern communications like the Internet.
Copra industry
On September 15, 2007, Witon Barry, of the Tobolar Copra processing plant in the Marshall Islands capital of Majuro said power authorities, private companies and entrepreneurs had been experimenting with coconut oil as alternative to diesel fuel for vehicles, power generators and ships. Coconut Trees abound in the Pacific's tropical islands. Copra, from 6 to 10 coconuts makes 1 litre oil.
Experimental nuclear power.
Experimental nuclear power. There is a South African company working on a Pebble Bed Reactor that apparently has had problems with activists/government for some time. They or others with similar needs/problems could surely use some real estate without most of those headaches.
Drug tourism
The Keith Richards Center for Verrrrrrrryyyy Sllooooowwww Drug Rehabilitation.
I'm dead serious. It's exactly the kind of legal gradient that a pirate microstate can operate on, and as long as whatever people are doing *NEVER EVER* leaves the Seasteads, what's going on there should be nobody's business. Amsterdam etc. do a roaring trade this way, and only a very limited range of substances are quasi-legal here.
There are a lot of very rich old junkies who'd quite appreciate an island (albeit artificial) paradise, with a recording studio, satcom, and nice doctors who'll prescribe (hell, sell) them all the smack they could ever wish for, no questions asked, pharm quality, and pay a solid ground rent for the privilege.
Is it moral? I'm not sure that's anybody's business but theirs. Is it a liability to the existence of a microstate? I'm not at all sure. On one hand, it might be scadalous. On the other hand, having a bunch of rich old pop stars who live on your platform and live *forever* because, well, their drugs are pure and their lives are stress free and they get top notch medical care...
yeah, I dunno
I really think it's an issue that has to be considered. Raises questions about how you keep the mafia out, or do you just invite them in on day one and let them run rig security in return for a de facto monopoly on certain kinds of activities.
I don't have answers, but I think the business model is there!
great stuff
I think you very astutely predict what could be a boom industry on seasteads, for better or for worse, and I argued along the same lines here. For reasons he goes into more on his blog, however, Patri Friedman isn't too concerned with the mafia coming along or with drug trade being "a liability to the existence of a microstate" as you quite rightly put it. For my money, I think Patri (and Eelco) are making a better argument that "this needn't be the consequence" than for "this will never happen," but I let the matter be. (Perhaps the better part of valor when up against a Friedman.)
yeah, I dunno
I think the argument against export is trivial: it's just a Bad Move.
Local consumption, though, is another matter. I think that opiates, particularly, offer a potentially very important gradient. Opiate-dependent folks often have very normal, boring, stable lives, as long as they have their drugs, and very few countries really tolerate them well. While I generally think that opiates are Bad Drugs, it's hard for me to imagine that most of the people who are junkies are junkies by choice, or that criminalizing them is really helping them at all.
So the idea of simply not interfering with opiate tourism, and tolerating long-haul opiate dependent people as folks with a lot to contribute... I think there's a lot to it. Rumor has it a lot of pirates were gay, and it was a rare place where being openly gay wasn't a big deal. People who can't live their lives because society interferes with them in profound ways are disproportionately motivated to projects like seasteading.
I guess what I'm saying is that opiate drug tourism might be a stable economic arrangement, might help both sides of the deal live better lives than they would otherwise, and might give a severely persecuted population with what amounts to a medical problem an opportunity to go about their business unmolested. It's not a *fashionable* population (well, Pete Docherty aside) but I think if we want to get serious about economic engines for a seastead, sun, surf and smack for the fabulously debauched isn't a bad recipe.
If you put a recording studio on the island, some of these folks are just never going to leave.
I am not, at all, modeling a Mos Eisley scenario - this isn't vice and villainy. Rather, it's an acceptance that people who are addicted to opiates are human too, and maybe should have a place to stand where their lifestyle is not illegal, where they can live in peace, indulge their substance of choice, and live fully productive lives without being pathologized at every hand and turn. Addiction is a medical issue, but given that opiate dependent people with regular access to clean supplies suffer surprisingly few health effects, certainly fewer than either chronic smokers of tobacco or alcoholics...
Freedom looks like different things to different people. For serious opiate addicts, an oil platform with clean drugs at reasonable prices where they can just get on with their lives might be a pretty good deal, one they're willing to commit a lot of resources to maintaining.
$0.02.
Mobile processing ships- 3 ideas
Currently, most Copra traders in the Pacific merely collect it and take it somewhere, which often reduces the quality of the coconut oil produced to less than human-food-grade. I have found references to smaller processing plant equipment, that could easily be ship-borne. Such a mobile processing platform could cut out some middle-men, time, and spoilage, by processing the cargo picked up from one island while journeying to the next, then trading finished products like copra meal (animal fodder high in protein), soap, and biodiesel for the next island's raw materials. In the process, the ship supplies its own fuel, and builds a network of buiness relationships for other trading. The languishing copra industry is revitalized on a local scale with greater profits going back to the individuals farming the coconuts, higher standard of living, and the supply-market loop is cut to a fraction. Several such ships operated as one corporation form a seasteading community that keep in touch and meet up from time to time to trade labour specialties, social interaction, information, and corporate business.
Other ships visit more sessile seasteads and pick up fish products, pick up and process human/biological waste with methane digesters, trade off or sell what they don't need of both methane and organic fertilizer to the coconut farmers in return for other products or cash.
Recycled plastic fiber clothing. If a Seastead were to specialize in this type of clothing manufacturing, and a service were instituted to collect the plastic bottles from all over the Pacific (charging for removal) and then recycled into clothing for sal eback to Islanders. It might be a viable bueinss. Again, this collection service might be a mobile platform, it might be a service that a ship-shape seastead performs for sessile seastead. Early versions of this technology were criticized for lack of fire retardant capability, but selling it to people with no other options and who are fully informed of fire hazards would not pose a moral quandary. Also, there are now techniques that can be incorporated into the process to mitigate this. Seas steaders themselves would probably be a good market for this, as one of the best sources of lcoally-manufactured clothing (and clothing may be less important on many seasteads in mild climates than it is currently in the United States, for example.)
Recycled "ocean clothing"
I like your last idea best, there are enough people around who want to show off their environmental-friendliness. What could be better than, instead of driving hybrids, cleaning the oceans by wearing these?
Mobile processing ships have
Mobile processing ships have been increasingly used in the Alaskan fishing industry though, so there is a sound business case behind it.
More Industry (sub industries)
Total Submarine Repairs submerged from Modules attached to Units.
Au Natural Tourist Colony?
Scuba diver Training Center.
Commercial diving Training Center for Oil rigs.
Marine archeological studies Center
Kelp farming.
Marine Eco Reserve Security stations.
Cruise ship Repair Center.
Offshore Solar/Wind/Undersea Power Centers to feed CA HI Mex TX FL etc.
College? linked to USC or UCLA? other.
Naval Weapons Test Center station for Undersea Weapons & Surface weapons Testing.
Airport: Huge Mega Island to handle 747, 797 size jets IE aircraft carrier style but 10X size of carrier deck space alone.
Or VSTOL Airport only.
Huge VSTOL planes for traffic to shore or ships.
Business forum?
Might a business forum be a good idea? If seasteading is going to move from being a philosophical discussion to a reality, isn't the basis or raison d’être going to be commerce? I'd think that that would actually come before the design of a physical platform. I understand that a design parameter is to have flexibility, but the incremental approach would lead me to think that showing that a platform can be self supporting (financially at first) is the first hurdle. Commerce or business will be the major occupation on a seastead, not government.
I would think that the business strategy guy/gal would come before a chief scientist, or engineering director. Those positions are the "how". I guess the social movement might be the "why" but I think that's too vague to translate to a floating community. But the "what" seems to be being short changed. What, exactly will be the revenue sources? I've read the "ventures" page. For a business to succeed, it needs a strategic advantage. A seastead will be pretty limited here. Golf course? A simple comparison of popular courses would show the impracticallity. Medical and Health Care? There might be a market for high end cosmetic surgery. The isolation, if adequate facilities are supplied, would be an advantage. Oceanic research projects? There is not much to study in one place in deep water. That's why it's done from ships.
Aquaculture? Maybe. OOA (open ocean aquaculture) seems well suited. There is capital available. The market is growing. Deep cold water for freezing energy is close. It would need to be processed so it would make sense to buy wild caught and process and market it also.
Cargo transboarding? no comment. Casino? You will need a good reason for customers to travel the distance. My sense is casino goers won't be that interested the concept. Diving and Shiphandling school? I've been to both and don't see any reason to go to a seastead for it. Maybe commercial diving. The ballast tanks could be configured as training tanks and NDT (nondestructive testing/inspection) apprenticeships offerred. This is a small potatoe though. Surfing ? You would probably need a medium nuclear power plant to stationkeep an open ocean wave breaker. It's also the opposite of the objective. Breaking waves cause the damage. If they are not breaking, they're basically swells not waves.
Maybe a valid approach would be to examine current income sources or businesses (successful ones) that operate on the oceans. Developing ones that show promise (that is are already attracting investment capital) should be included probably. A SWOT analysis might be a good idea.
So if TSI is to move from a philosophical discussion to a floating seastead, would more of a focus on the economics be in order? I suggest a business forum.
I agree. I would like to see
I agree. I would like to see some businesses that currently operate on the ocean, and see if they can be changed to a whole lifestyle model, where you basically work from your home. there are great social benefits (and some downsides) to this, as we saw in the break up of the extended family model into the nuclear family model with the move away from agrarian society. I'm not advocating a return to subsistence agriculture (or aquaculture), although I can see that appealing to some as well, but as I've said repeatedly, there has to be more than ideology behind it, there needs to be an economic reason, and "no taxes" isn't compelling if you're not making any money to tax in the first place. You idea of a business forum is sort of what I had meant for this thread to be- an idea for businesses that would derive either some competitive business or lifestayle advantage from seasteading, hopefully both. I've seen enough businesses run by idiots to know that there's usually a competitive advantage in just being a little bit better than average.
We do agree
here. Lifestyle can be a competitive advantage. A good example are Mom&Pop charter boats. Like a 55' sailing catamaran that a couple invests their savings/retirement in. If the boat is paid for, their costs are pretty low. They can make a very nice living charging rates 20-30% below average. They develop a clientele and can cease marketing efforts. That's hard to compete with if you need to make a profit.
The seastead will need businesses that take specific advantage of the location and nature. It is not a long list. There is no advantage in anything that a maquiladora can or is doing. Without a fast internet connection, even most businesses well suited to a seastead location will be at a disadvantage. I've been involved in most types of marine businesses at one time or another, either directly or peripherally. I can see it working.
But, I can't see it working the way it's laid out. The platform would need to be well suited to the specifics of the businesses. I can't see the spar design doing that. This seems to be a cart before the horse problem. Drifting is not a option, DP will cost too much, and the motion will be objectionable for comfortable habitation. This approach does not seem very reality-based to me.
I see two major possibilites for viable seastead businesses. Energy and seafood. Open ocean aquaculture will have a competitive advantage because the product can be "organic" and "sustainable". Energy because it would be sustainablly produced so you can sell both the energy and the credits.
The biggest reason I can see that seasteads don't exist is that there has been no economic reason for them to. That may be different now. If so, it won't be because of what's wrong with the current economic and governmental systems. It will be because there is an viable economic raison d’être or profit capability for it. So I think it has to start there. Maybe a simple SWOT would illustrate this.